Eric Warner’s “German Wheat Beers,” also from <em>Brewers Publications</em> belongs in your library. When I was in Germany last fall I learned there are German brewers who use it as a reference. Yes, I find that intimidating, however I do hope to pass along research that’s taken place since Eric wrote his book in 1992, about both brewing and ingredients.
What would you like to know about weizen beers, both brewing and drinking them? This includes everything for pale-colored Hefeweizens to Weizenbocks. Please leave your question as a comment.
Hi Stan, can’t wait for the book.
I’ve been brewing a Bavarian style HefeWeizen commercially for a couple years now (Lovibonds Henley Gold) and there is one thing that isn’t covered all that well in the books I have:
Repitching by top cropping/skimming. We started with WLP300 and it is perfect for top cropping as we have now been using the same yeast for what must be 30 generations.
What would be great is pictures of the top of a typical Hefe fermentation (day 1, day 2, day 3 sort of thing) and the when, how and with what about top cropping this yeast.
I want to know how the Germans do it…
Best of luck with the book…
Cheers,
Jeff
That would be great.
Warner’s book is one of my favorites in the series because of the anecdotes he shared: asking for coffee at break time when all the other brewery workers were partaking in a Weizen.
That sort of info and historical aspects are what attract me to a beer book. I like following the culture and history of a style.
Also, can you finally and definitively answer the “lemon question” in a Bavarian Weizen? Yes, no, sometimes, sind Sie Verrückt?
Thanks Stan — looking forward to more notes from others.
Fluffiness.
This is a delightful mouthfeel element in examples I’ve had in Germany. I’ve managed it by accident, using a glucan rest and a high saccharification temp. But it seldom works the same way twice.
How does one get consistent fluffiness?
Also, on another technical note: How do German breweries maintian “Mit hef” in kegged product? Obviously, they don’t expect pubs to shake the keg.
I’d like to see something written in the book about how to handle the yeast in order to get that wonderful banana/clove aroma in proportions. I’ve judged beers that had one or the other, and it’s a rarity to get both.
Just like in BLAM, a yeast chart showing what the various yeasts do at different temps. Also, how much does pitching impact the flavor profile? what yeasts (and pitching rates and temps) do the classic Weizen breweries use?
Stan,
Quite a few places offer Hefe’s with rasberry or some other types of syrups. Is this a tradition? Do they do that in Germany? What is the history behind it? Why add a blemish to a beer such as a sugary syrup?
The first Hefe I had was in Regensburg, Germany. I was 20 years old and had only known American Pilsners prior to that fateful day. It changed my whole idea of what beer is. Never before had I had banana, even some bubblegum hints and some spicyness to a beer before.
It truly forever changed my outlook as to what beer could be and since then, I have never again had a commercial domestic beer. It did not contain syrup (I think thats an American thing, but I don’t know). It was this cloudy brew that was served in a tall glass. I remember that taste like it was yesterday (if I am doing my math correctly, that was in 1994…)
I really look forward to your book and hope that you can help me understand why people ruin such great beers with syrups.
I should have asked this above – sorry about the second posting. Hefe’s, Dunkelweisen’s and Roggenbiers are closely related.
Some history and background on Roggenbiers would be cool also. I know this is about wheats, but a Roggen is really a Dunkelweisen made with Rye (and sometimes a little wheat). Background on that wonderous beer would be nice as well.
I’d like to see a definitive reference to the whole red v white wheat, summer v winter wheat discussion.
I see the names used a lot in homebrewing discussion, but the rules don’t seem consistent.
When I was in Germany(83-87) I had a Edl-wiezen Still have two glasses… The wheat beer was fairly clear (depending on how it was poured) but they served it with 3 grains of rice. If the head went down (due to slow drinking) add one grain of rice. I never heard of lemon or orange slices being served with this beer. I really loved that beer and I always try to copy that beer but it has been a few years.
there is a problem with the “Subscribe to RSS feed “
I would be interested in hearing about which/how many German and American breweries are deploying decoction mashes vs. step mashes vs. single infusion – if any. Or if any are using cara type malts like carahell in their weizens, and if so, in what proportions. And if there is a correlation between brewers who use or don’t use these malts and the type of mash employed.
Would also be interested in hearing if american and german brewers are using the rule of 30 for fermentation temps or have other fermentation strategies – and how those strategies effect results of the yeast/alcohol profile.
Add me to the list that think too many american breweries and brewpubs seem to be tilting the yeast profile towards phenolic instead of a balanced approach between esters and phenols – as well as not getting that chewey mouthfeel that many German versions have.
Stan, can you please include Weizenbock in you chapters on Weizen. I have not found a whole lot of info on this style, even in Eric Warner’s excellent book. Good luck on your adventurous book and thanks.
Hi Stan, I loved Brew like a Monk and am excited for your new book. I would love to know the importance, as a homebrewer, of doing a decoction for Bavarian weizen. Specifically, I’m curious about the impact of a decoction on perceived maltiness, and also the impact of an acid rest on increased ferulic acid production and the resulting increased levels of 4-vinyl guaiacol, and how this affects clove notes in the final beer. I am curious about ideal fermentation temperatures for this beer as well, since it seems most other German beers are fermented much cooler than English or Belgian beers. Thanks and best of luck.
Simple but silly question: why do wheat beers ferment so violently? The wheat ones, for me, are the most likely to clog and test my blow-off tubes.
jb
I see a lot of good questions and comments with regard to ferment temps and their effect on flavor, as well as the use of unmalted wheat (primarily in wit beers). Here are a couple of things I’d like to see adressed:
Dark wheat beers (weizenocks, dunkles, etc.)production methods, yeast selection so on and so forth. Some of these beers are really neglected by American brewers, and some attention to these styles would be a great addition to any book on wheat beers.
I agree that, like in Brew Like a Monk, a yeast selection chart and the resultant flavor profiles from various ferm temps would be very helpful. I’ve had some wheat beers that had no phenolic character, and some that tasted like a banana milk shake. Look forward to reading the book Stan!
The one reason I buy beer books if for the interesting quips and stories about beer. One of the things that I haven’t seen about wheat beers in the effects on minerals (burton salt type effects) on wheat beers.
Also I have always wondered why there are not any well known wheat beers coming out of Europe’s primary wheat producing areas in Eastern Europe, you know Poland, Ukraine, ect. I’ve had beers from these countries and they have all been kind of unexciting. Any reason for that?
What I’m going for is information or short blurbs about wheat beers from nontraditional places, or using nontraditional wheat grains, such as rye beers, or even more eclectic combinations making like a “pumpernickel” bread of beers. Good luck!
I think a general look at how yeast in wheat beers is handled and how that affects flavor contributions. There have been mentions of temperature, o2 levels, more generally “stressed” yeast, pitching numbers, variations in commonly available strains, mashing techniques and their effects on “precursors” to resulting flavors in the beer (thinking of clove, for example).
I think the yeast component is a very complicated one for Weizen given how much the handling and implementation affect the outcome.
Couple some explanation with some practical solutions for whatever level of brewer and things would be quite interesting.
Hey Stan-
Great to see you have a new book in the works.
I’m interested in black wheat beers. For example, New Glarus Black Wheat and Kapuziner Schwarz Weizen.
Any insight into beers like that would be great.
Wow, I just stumbled onto this site in the course of a little Google research. I can’t say how excited I am. This book is going to be awesome.
It would be wonderful to see as authoritative an account as possible of the actual value of the various traditional rests and decoction techniques. This seems more controversial than it maybe used to be (I hear talk about today’s highly-modified malts, etc., making these things less necessary).
Also, some light shed on Weizenbocks would be nice–their history, their many variations (light, dark, various strenghths).
Very excited about this book–did I mention that?
Working as a brewmaster in Poland, I find hefeweizen as a topseller. Many things may happen during production of this beer. I think, it would be interesting to find informations like: production of dunkel weizen, mashing, types of secondary fermentation (bottom yeast fermentation)- additions of wort or sugar; yeast properities (is cooling down necessary after main fermentation for yeast collecting), hopping with new kinds of hops (Saphire), sources of bitter in wheat beer, reasons of clarity in wort and beer, controlling the aroma (wort aeration) and many others.
By the way, does anyone can advice me where can I buy Eric Warner’s “German Wheat Beers”? I tried to reach it online, but as Poland is a part of EU, it`s still a problem to make some online shoppings.
I would like to see a section on special handling/fermentation lessons for the Hefe yeasts. I’ve been brewing for two years, and have absolutely no problems with wit, saison, alt, pils, and the English yeasts, but have huge problems with Hefeweizen yeast health — I get autolysis problems and/or band-aid flavors in all of my Hefe brews, and they are completely undrinkable. I never have problems with my other brews, so I know it’s not a problem with sanitation. I’ve tried fermentation temperatures from 62 degrees to 68, and always have the same rubber gumshoe/bandaid flavors. And yes, I use make a 2000ml starter on a stir plate, so I know I have plenty of healthy yeast growth before I pitch. I’ve even altered water sources thinking I might have chlorophenol problems — to no avail.
I wish I knew what my problem is brewing Hefeweizens — they are the reason I started homebrewing, so it’s very frustrating for me to fail at such a simple beer. Hope you can help me with this question in your new book.
I had more to say/ask on Witbiers, but for Hefeweizens, this is a must read!:
http://forum.northernbrewer.co.....7e3524d910
A few years back, Horst D. did an article on Dampfbier for BYO. While not brewed with wheat, it does use the traditional wheat beer yeast. It’s a little obscure, I suppose, but if there is more to say on the topic, maybe you could address it in this book.
I first discovered a taste for beer traveling through Germany and devoured many a “Weizenbier” but was very disappointed when I came back to the states to find only a handful of beers that were kindof but not really similar. Thus started my homebrew hobby. I still have yet to brew a decent german style wheat beer but I got sidetracked for a while, I’m just now starting up my quest again.
That said, I’d love more information on how to make the seemingly ubiquitous beer that I can’t seem to find here in the states. I have Warner’s book on the subject but I’m still getting my feet wet with all-grain and decoction brewing seems intimidating. I’ve also read that decoction is not necessary. I will probably be attempting a batch before the book is out (like this month) so hopefully it will turn out well and I can end my search but I’m not so sure. Can you brew a similar wheat with a single infusion mash or does it require a step mash? Can you get away without a decoction mash?
Also to the above question about the lemon, when I was in Germany it seemed to be a regional thing. Some places served it with a lemon, others did not. It seemed to me to be more common without the lemon and this is my personal preference.
It’s very difficult to find any references regarding wheat varieties for unmalted wheat ales. Hard White wheat varieties are used due to low to moderate gluten/protein content. Hard white wheat comes in both Winter, (planted in Fall harvested in late Spring)and Summer, (planted in early spring or late winter and harvested in July). There are French, German, and American/Canadian hard white wheat varieties, (AC Snowbird,AC Vista,Argent,Explorer,Golden 86, IDO377S, Lolo, MT9420, Pristine, Winsome), but no info on brewing qualities.
I’ve been researching barley, spelt, oats and wheat for several years. The grain industry is a very tight ship. Most seeds are available only under contract in very large quantities. A couple of years ago I received a very nasty e-mail from the proprietor of Maris Otter barley seed after I sent a letter requesting the purchase of 5lbs of seed. Anyway, don’t forget the glucan problems with wheat is partially resolved by 10-20% 6 row malt to make up for the loss of fiber in when using hard white wheat.
I grow a 4,000 square feet of grain every year in my gardens for home use, straw for garlic, schallot mulch and for brewing. I began scratch brewing once I finally got my hands on a decent two row barley, (conlon) and 6 row (robust), if anyone has Klages seed, please e-mail me at Corbinj31@yahoo.com.
Probably the best strategy is to go to Belgium or Germany ask around, sooner or later you’ll get enough hard white wheat and barley seed. Most barley and wheat seed is open pollinateded so you can propagate your own seed.
Another idea is to call around Cal-Davis Viticulture-oenology and Zymurgy programs for reference materials. Even then, it will be very difficult to buy hard white wheat because the crops are contracted. Even if you do find hard white wheat it will be $4.00lbs after shipping, which is an insane amount of money for unmilled grain.
For much of North America growing and malting grain for brewing should be local. All great brewing styles have emerged over time in response to the agrarianan constraints of a people on the land using the cultivars available. The only constraint to Americhome home brewingng is money,which means transplanted European brewing that is completely divorced from the land us Americans are living on…..Boring! Growing and malting grain isn’t rocket science but it ain’t painting by numbers either.
Even if you live in the city, there is land available to grow grain, if not you should be able to buy malted barley and other brewing grains from local farmers.