Let’s get the semantics out of the way as quickly as possible. Belgian beers come from Belgium. Americans brew Belgian-inspired beers. Recently that’s included very popular beers variously known a Blanche, Belgian White, White, Wit and more. White beers were once all the rage in Belgium, then basically disappeared before Pierre Celis revived the style in the town of Hoegaarden. He later moved to Austin, Texas, and introduced Americans to Celis White.
There’s a lot more that that to White beers. What about the use of spices and unmalted wheat? Were these beers once “wilder?” Why the heck are they cloudy?
Whoops. You guys are supposed to be asking the questions. What would you like to know about Wit beers, both brewing and drinking them? Please leave your question as a comment.
I’ve brewed some very successful and authentic-tasting Belgian Blanche beers.
I’m still curious about raw vs malted wheat. In particular, does the raw wheat add anything more than haze?
If it does do anything, what should I look for when tasting?
I’m also curious about the water profile (and if Belgian brewers make water adjustments) for Belgian beers.
One area that hasn’t been examined enough is a means of keeping haze in a commercial wheat beer. A good White beer will often leave the brewery in keg/bottle/can with a nice level of haze – but after that all bets are off. A beer that has dropped bright by time it reaches the consumer is sometimes a totally different beer both in perception and flavor quality. There are many known approaches I have heard; shipping kegs upside down forcing distributors to rouse them before serving, forcing a chill haze at the brewery (at the cost of shelf life??),addition of a non-floculating yeast, actually filtering and then adding a haze forming product downstream (‘Tanal A’ from Wyeast, or ‘Biocloud’ made by Kerry and dist. through Brewers Supply Group). This last solution may hold the most promise commercially but there must be better/other ways breweries out there are dealing with this important issue.
Stan,
I have always loved this article for historical perspective on Wit, turbid mash and chain coppers. Please check it out if you get time.
http://www.brewingtechniques.c.....osher.html
Cheers,
Bill
Hi Stan,
I know this is basic, but I would like to see the questions about orange peel answered definitively once and for all. Does sweet peel taste like ham, is the peel only a bittering substitute for hops, does any citrusy character come only from coriander, which variety gives the “best” (how’s that for subjective?) character, etc.?
Thanks
Max
Stan, I’d like to learn about making the haze ‘permanent’. Obviously everything will fall out of suspension eventually, but Wit beers don’t have the longest shelflife so if they can stay cloudy for a few months thats ‘permanent’ enough for the lifetime of the beer – ha
I’ve heard about using a tablespoon of regular household wheat flour in the mash for cloudiness, does that work?
I’d be interested in hearing about the effects different mashing regimens, different yeasts (and other bugs), and/or different fermentation techniques have on developing tartness/acidity, and about the range of acidity found in wits. What constitutes a traditional approach, and what are other brewers doing that more innovative (or less traditional, depending on your politics…).
I’ve read and reread Pierre Rajotte’s description of the old way white beers were made, but still can’t quite wrap my mind around it.
Stan,
Just thought I’d put my vote in for a beer worth exploring – Rogue Ales Honey Orange Wheat is superb…check it out. Slightly sweet, just citrus-ey enough, delightfully cloudy.
I’m reading Brew Like a Monk right now and love it. Keep up the good work.
Rich, Portland, OR
My strongest advice is to interview Pierre Celis. Celis made the finest wit bier ever with celis white in Texas. In addition, he resurrected the style with Hoegarden.
I’m making a research to develop myself a Gruit to the Brazilian Homebrewers National Contest (which will happen in Rio, on August 11th) and one of the types which will be part of it is the witbier. Because of it, I’ve found your website and I wanted to post my suggestion, as I found your Brew like a Monk very good!
I think it would be interessant if you could write with some detail abou GRUIT. Nowadays, it sounds wierd to any homebrewer (at least beginners like me) to hear from hopsless bier (even though Gruit nowadays does have hops). So, the ingredients used and the development of Gruit along the centuries… I think it’s one of main caracteristic of a witbier, for it is what gives its citric taste…
So, I hope I could be of some help…
Regards!
I have noticed a couple of issues with my wits. I use a 40% unmalted flaked wheat and 10% unmalted flaked oats. I add ~ 1/3 lb of rice hulls (for 6 gals recipe) to keep the sparge from getting stuck. During the sparge I have noticed that the mash pulls away from the sides of the of the lauter tun. This may be an effect of the higher protein and starch levels in the mash causing the mash to congeal and pull away from the sides. In an effort to keep the hot liquor from running down the sides and not through the mash, I have gently pushed the mash back into the sides. I guess I could add more rice hulls, but is this and issue seen commercially? Another issue is related to the yeast. I use WLP400 with a large starter. Fermentation starts ~72 degrees and activity ramps up very quickly. However things start to slow down after that. I have seen primary fermentation take over 21 days. I believe that this is partly the yeast and partly the high unmalted wheat content (and sometimes honey). It would be helpful to discuss the chemistry of using unmalted grains, enzyme activity during the mash, issues with sparging, and the effect on yeast metabolism.
I am looking forward to the book.
On the Wit I just did, I used fresh zest (navel orange, lemon and grapefruit) and spiced with corriander, pepper, and chamomile. I would love to see discussion of these various spice choices.
The wit from 501 brewery in Austin, TX is highly regarded as a good example of the style by folks in that area. I have yet to get there to try it.
I am planning on making a witbier soon. The following are questions and tidbits of information I gathered:
1) Grains:
a) What’s the difference between raw wheat and flaked wheat in terms of flavor impact? I’ve heard flaked is not as “wheaty”
b) What about torrified wheat and how does it compared to flaked?
c) Wheat malt is not recommended as it has the wrong flavor profile. I also heard that 70% can be used to match the flavor of 40-50% raw.
d) What are the ranges of wheat:barley proportions?
e) How much sour malt or lactic acid to add to match the classic “tartness” of these beers?
f) How much oats and which oats to use — instant or old fashioned?
g) How much spelt can be used in the grain bill and what exactly is it?
h) What is the best type of raw wheat to use — soft white? hard red? etc.
i) How do you crush this hard wheat stuff? How fine?
j) Can wheat flour be used instead of grinding raw wheat to grits?
k) Can I use cracked wheat?
2) Hops:
a) Noble hops are preferred for “spiciness”?
b) Should stale hops be used?
c) What about using US citrusy hops to complement orange peel?
3) Spices:
a) How much coriander to use?
b) Which types is best? Does the stuff at the store really taste like celery??
c) When to add to the kettle?
d) How much orange peel should be used?
e) Which form — dried or fresh? Is the dried stuff at the homebrew shops really that worthless?
f) Which fruits or combination of fruits are best to use if we can’t find Seville oranges?
g) What’s the “secret spice” — chamomile? cumin?
4) Yeast:
a) What are the characteristics of the Wit yeasts (whitelabs, wyeast)
b) Do you need a starter or is “stressing” the yeast acceptable like Hefeweisens?
c) Can any other Belgian strain be used?
5) Mashing:
a) Tell me about “turbid mashing” and its practical uses for homebrewers
b) How do traditional Belgian brewers mash these beers — step mash?
c) Discuss the “adjunct mash” method for use with raw wheat and oats
d) Do you recirculate the mash more or less than normal?
6) Boiling:
a) I heard someone say Celis suggests a gentle boil instead of the typical rolling boil used for light malts. What about DMS then?
b) How long should the boil be?
7) Fermentation:
a) What is the best temperature range/regimen?
b) How long should the beer be conditioned? If at all?
8) Bottling:
a) How many volumes of CO2 should be used
9) Serving:
a) What temperature should it be served at and how should it be poured?
I hope this is not overkill!
Great list Dan Noon!
Howdy –
http://www.realbeer.com/discus.....eadid=8452
I’m currently brewing a wit using Wyeast’s Forbidden Fruit for the first time. I was floored by the sulfurous stink it produces and found some solace here: http://www.realbeer.com/discus.....eadid=8452 I also learned that some brewers were recommending starting the primary fermentation above the recommended temperature range for the yeast and bringing it back down later to develop proper phenolics.
…I would love to see a thorough discussion of the many different wit beer yeast available, and their individual quirks, temperature schemes, and the probable results.
Thanks.
The only Wit I have had to work up a haze is Victory’s Whirl Wind, (doesn’t taste like a true lacto fermentated Ale but not sure). I have experience making lacto soda’s. I can imagne a true lacto fermented Wit would have a Lacto haze until the beer is killed off by near freezing temps or pasturiztation. Spring wheat is high in gluten but I can imagne that the boil, breaks and floccuation characteristics of the yeast are bigger factors. Maybe age the beer longer prior to adding conditioning fermentables, and start moving it as soon as the fermentables are added…bottled conditioned beers are better anyway.
Howdy –
http://www.realbeer.com/discus.....eadid=8452
I’m currently brewing a wit using Wyeast’s Forbidden Fruit for the first time. I was floored by the sulfurous stink it produces and found some solace here: http://www.realbeer.com/discus.....eadid=8452 I also learned that some brewers were recommending starting the primary fermentation above the recommended temperature range for the yeast and bringing it back down later to develop proper phenolics.
…I would love to see a thorough discussion of the many different wit beer yeast available, and their individual quirks, temperature schemes, and the probable results.
Thanks.;. All the best!!
I was wondering if anyone has a nice blend recommendation for replicating Blanc de Namur. I am refering to the level of orange (peel or whole?), cardamon, and licorice/anise to use and when to use it. Steeping in wort or in the ferment? Also, has anyone tried clementine zest it has a robust flavor better than typical orange zest.